lt Girl | JES BAKER
Hi friends! I had the pleasure of meeting Jes after a book signing she did in Raleigh. Me and a few other ladies and her went out for dinner after which turned into cake because places were closed. It was an amazing night with lots of new friends. This interview has been sitting in my vaults for a longgggg time. (like embarassingly long, we did this in August 2018 :( ) I am disclosing this only because I am sure Jes has accomplished even more since we spoke. I highly recommend heading over to her instagram for an update, you can also get on her mailing list http://bit.ly/TMBlist . She’s an amazing human.
Name: Jes Baker
Age: 32
Education/Background: BYU Idaho, Interior Design/Art History
Job Title/What you do: Self-employed Baker
1. Tell us a little about who you are.
I am plus size. I prefer the term fat. I'm a fat, white, millennial who really believes in justice and compassion and empathy and I really believe in removing shame. If I were to Incapsulate, I do so many things online through Militant Baker, which is kind of what I am just known as is the Militant Baker. If I had to describe what I do with just one sentence, I work on shame, resilience, helping people get rid of shame, whether it's around mental illness, body image, relationships or any of that. I just don't believe there's a place for shame. So that's who I am and what I love and what I do.
I just turned 32 and I work for myself. As far as background, I actually started out at college when I was 16 and I was going to be an interior designer and ended up going to BYU Idaho when I was 18 - also in interior design. They had a really great competitive program. And then I just decided it wasn't for me, so I went into art and art history. I loved it. I did graphic design and art history and then I came home and I'm really glad I did. I started working in a crepe shop, which led to me being a barista, which led to me becoming a professional Baker. The amazing thing is that because of my experience as a baker and also growing in a social work home, is I’m a really social justice focused person. It was a really amazing opportunity because it was a psychosocial rehabilitation program, which means you basically work with individuals who have a serious mental illness, and a determination, and you teach them through the act of working. It was a restaurant. So I was a Baker there in the very beginning, through the act of working, how to hold a job, keep a job. But really, it's the behavioral stuff. It's the life stuff that's the hardest. So you kind of work to help them manage and live their best life and also so that they can become employed. A lot of people believe that people who have a mental illness don't want to work and that's overwhelmingly not true. So that was my first experience in mental health, and I worked there for a very long time in a lot of different capacities and I eventually had to stop because I couldn't continue doing my work online with the Miltant Baker and also work a 40-hour job. I have gone back during the summers, um, which has been really lovely. But that's kind of my background.
“Knowing that I’m going to fail and knowing that we learn from failure.”
2. What sparked your interest in starting your business?
It's an accident. I was in a really emotionally sick relationship, and I just wanted to start blogging and at the time I was a full-time baker. So I was blogging about kitchen stuff and baking stuff and I had this realization one night reading another blog called ‘The Near-Sighted Owl’ and I resonated with everything. It was about this woman Gel, she had a purple beehive and had cats and loved thrifting. And that was kind of who I was at the time. She was also really fat. She was fat and happy, and at that point in my life, I was 25 or 26. It had never crossed my mind that I did have to hate myself just because of my body. I just accepted that was a part of living and she taught me that I didn't have to. And so after that, I mean like once you realize that you can, you can't ever go back. I ended up doing a lot of research at the time a while ago. So I read a lot of books and tumblr accounts and my blog changed and I was no longer interested in writing about the kitchen, I wanted to write about my journey. You know, I've been kind of going back and looking at older posts from the very beginning and either removing them because they're irrelevant or fixing the wording since I’ve learned so much more since then so that's kind of painful. Some of the first entries, you know, I was just a little baby blogger figuring out what learning to be at peace with your body was. So I really didn't know a lot but it just grew and I got really lucky. A lot of privilege plays into this. I had been writing about body image for some time and then there was, I don't know if you remember, but back in 2013 there was the huge debacle over Abercrombie and Fitch and they were talking about the CEO and how he said that they don't sell extra-large clothing for women because they only want cool people wearing their clothes. So it was around that time that people knew me as a body image blogger and then, they asked ‘Oh my God, did you hear about this?’
I had already been called fat for so long, that I was like, well, you know, another person saying it, but it kept coming and so I was like, okay, let's do something about it. So I did a collaboration with a local photographer and a local model and it was just us, none of us were paid. We rented a studio for an hour, and we recreated kind of faux Abercrombie ads, their style, black and white. Instead of Abercrombie and Fitch is said ‘Attractive and Fat’ and we used my body, which is a plus-size body, and it just went more viral to the point where that's where people are like, ‘Oh, that's where I know you from’ - even though I've done so much since then. So yeah, I was in the right place at the right time with a body that people listened to. I think that really contributed to my luck and success in turning after that, turning the militant Baker, which was my blog into my full-time job.
I just think it's really important for people to know that it was a lot of luck, and privilege and privilege is luck. I was in the right place at the right time in a white body that people listened to. So that's what kind of opportunities I had and that allowed me to keep growing. This is really interesting, but I have gained, a significant amount (for me anyway) of weight since then, since Abercrombie. I think that if I were to do it again, it would not go as viral because my body is less conventionally attractive. So really I think that my size and privilege played into that, but I'm glad it did because now here I am still kicking ass. So it's all right.
3. Who are you most influenced by?
Sonya Renee Taylor is probably the person I look up to the most in the work that I do. She is the founder of ‘The body is not an apology’, which has a website, but it's a movement. That is so powerful and she just wrote a book. She wrote several books. Her book is called the body is not an apology and you can find and link to that. She also just wrote a book for girls and their body changes during puberty, which is the most body-positive, nonjudgmental book I've ever seen for kids. She also functions from a place of compassion and empathy. I think that is just what I love about her. She just has every reason to tell everyone in the entire world to fuck off, and she doesn't. She continues to educate from a place of love and it blows my mind. So that's who I look up to.
4. What was your first job and how long did you hold that position?
My first job was a hostess at a family-owned Mexican restaurant when I was 15 and I stayed there for a few years and I absolutely loved it. It was great.
5. Can you share one of your proudest achievements with us?
I think finishing my last book that just came out in May called Land Whale. I don't love it. It was really hard to write though. I think that there's a lot of flaws in it, but I was able to be the most vulnerable I've ever been and I really did a lot about hard work in writing and being very honest and vulnerable with the world. Kind of just like putting my shit out for everyone to see. It nearly killed me but it didn't and it's out and it's done. Very proud of finishing. I didn't know if I was going to be able to finish.
“And I do think that that resonates. I think authenticity will always resonate. So if you’re ever questioning, if you’re ever stuck and you’re like, I don’t know which way to go. Choose the authentic route and stay true to you and also give people the real shit.”
6. What were your initial goals with your work? How have they evolved?
I think the most important thing is that when I first started doing body image I was in love with this concept of body love and I've very much changed since then. The words I use now are body liberation because I think liberation just means that you're free from outside expectations of other people, and your own. I think that's where a lot of healing happens. So I really changed my messaging a lot.
7. What do you think is the most important life skill you learned through your work?
I’m working on this, but I’ve really honed the ability to discern what criticism is valid and what isn't. When you work on the internet and you're very visible you would not think there's a lot of controversy around telling people to love themselves, but there is, you get a lot of feedback and some of it's wonderful and some of its fucking horrible. I have learned to find the criticism that's really hard to hear, but really important. Especially when you're doing solidarity work, like social justice, you have to listen to the criticism that comes your way, and then apologize and then do better. So I've been really learning that skill and it will continue probably forever.
8. Where do you hope to be in five years?
I have no idea. This has been one hell of a roller coaster. I've been taking things as they come. What I do know is that I would like my message to reach an even broader audience. So I don't know what it's like. I'm in the middle of figuring that out actually.
Photo by Cassidy Araiza for the New York Times
9. What is a typical day like for you?
I actually have a pretty typical day right now because I'm in the middle of packing and traveling. So I get up and have my morning ritual, and then I have a to-do list that is forever long. I work on that. I do one on one guidance sessions, talking shame resilience. I work with people one on one through Skype or on the phone. And, we talk about all kinds of things, body image, mental health, physical health, advocacy, everything -- we talk about at all. So I have those appointments and around those, I am writing guest chapters for books, I'm doing podcasts and interviews. I am signing up to do volunteer crisis response through this really cool company that offers free texting crisis solutions. So I'll be doing that training. I have a coach, a business coach. I do that once a week and that's, whatever needs to be done, but it does, all of those things end up being in my day, which is really nice. They all have their time and place, so it's organized. Google calendar has saved my life. I just talked about work, but my partner gets home around 5:30 and we always sit out and have an evening cocktail and talk about our days on our front porch and then I spend the rest of the night playing cards or hanging out in our little blowup pool outside. It's, really nice.
10. What was the biggest obstacle you’ve faced so far in the process of pursuing your goals?
I think I am my biggest obstacle. I think that I overthink. I’m a hypersensitive person and an empath. So I think that I over-feel, and that makes working with really tricky issues - difficult, but I can't just not work on them. So I think that learning how to balance self-care so that I can come in to do the hard work that needs to be done, that finding that balance is the biggest obstacle. And I'm closer to that than before, but I'm still working on it
11. What is the best piece of advice you have received?
There's so many. One that's kind of related but not is, a friend of mine who also works in the same area of work that I do gave me this great advice that I just call sifting. It's essentially the 12 step program, I think it's number 10, and it’s something that says take what you need and leave the rest. I think a lot of times, we shut down and we don't listen to other people that we may or may not agree with. But the reality is that everyone has something to teach us, and if we're able to go sifting mindset to take the gems and leave everything else, I think, I've just learned so much since I started. You can access the whole world and I was only accessing a small part that I knew I would agree with. I think that just having the world and its knowledge at your disposal is a beautiful thing. So I'm very grateful for that. ‘Take what you need, leave the rest’ advice. Sifting.
12. When do you get your best ideas?
At night in the pool with beer with my partner. We've joked that he recorded our conversations because they actually are really good and occasionally - we usually remember - but occasionally we'll be like, Oh my God, what was that idea that we came up with last night that was so good? We can't remember. It’s Devastating. So that's when the conversations fun. Also just get random inspiration for writing, which is hard for me right now. Writing is very hard because I've been doing it for so long, but if an idea comes and I'm feeling it, I have to write it right when it comes. The pool I think is a magical place.
13. Can you share with us one time that you failed and what you learned from that failure?
I fail all the time. I fail every fucking day and I think that it’s really natural. You probably want a really big one. So a couple of days ago I posted an article on Facebook that was about racial justice and I scheduled them out. So they post, I'm on Pacific time cause I'm in Arizona right now. So it goes out, three hours earlier in, the East coast and I woke up to this really horrible facebook comment section and a person who was like, basically, you need to get your shit together and you can't just post this and not monitor these people who are posting really horrible offensive things. I tried to explain I was asleep and you know, I do try and I hire someone and that was the wrong way to handle that. I was so mad at myself that I fucked up one and then I fucked up trying to fix it again. The internet makes us feel like we have to move so quickly and I should have taken a moment. This is the lesson that I relearn every day. Reactions are not what you want to put out into the world, but the internet just enables reactionary commentary all the time. Responses are what you want to send out to the world. And I should have taken a moment to just be like, Hey, put down your pride and your bullshit privilege and think about this for a minute. When I thought about it for a minute, I was like, Oh my God, I'm wrong, I'm wrong. So by that time, you know that the damage is done. You can't undo the damage, but I could apologize. And it was sincere. I'm sorry. And I will moderate these comments more heavily because this person was right. When you have a very sensitive subject, she was absolutely right. I just wished that I wasn't so reactive. I learned that lesson I think every, every day, not so publicly. I make mistakes every day and I try and learn from them, but there are also things you just keep learning every day for the rest of your life. I think responding instead of reacting is a big one for me. I've gotten better at it though after six and a half years on the internet. I am a lot better than I was when I first started. That's for sure. I try and more so that my best is better every day. That's my goal. Knowing that I'm going to fail and knowing that we learn from failure, I think that's also really good advice I got is that we learn the most from failure.
14. How do you unwind?
I enjoy a good political thriller. Netflix and Amazon prime are my good friends. I am limited as I get older in what I drink, but I still love wine and it's summer here, so summer in Tucson, in the middle of the summer, it could up to 116. It's been kind of like an abysmal summer. So I unapologetically drink wine and beer. I'm so lucky to have a mother that I love and can talk to about anything, a partner that's the same, and friends. So those are unwinding and music. Music is so powerful. I have a soundtrack that I listen to in the morning to kind of ground me and then at night to unwind and it’s really wonderful.
15. What would you tell someone else who is interested in entering your field?
What I wish I knew before I started all of this: If I tell anyone something that I wish I knew in the very beginning when I started all of this, it would be to be very careful in how you give out your energy because the energy we have inside of us, it's finite. And in the very beginning, I spent it on people who really, not only didn't care about me but were just taking it out on people, they just hated happy fat people. And that really upset me. I spent a lot of energy around it and it was just wasted energy, not to say you can't have feelings, but learning how to minimize how much energy I give, that has been so amazing. There's this great visual called the disapproval matrix by Ann Friedman and it's cut into four quarters, and it's kind of who you give your energy to - the energy, there are frenemies and there are haters and you don't give your energy to those people. And then there are lovers and there are critics. Lovers are the people who want to see you through and thrive and they know you and they give and then the critics are the experts in your field, whatever you're doing. And they give you feedback that's critical, about your work. They may not be people who know you, and that's okay. But you know, that's the criticism that's worth listening to... I think also critics, if you're going to be going into any kind of social justice and making the world a better place, we have to listen to the voices of marginalized and oppressed groups. When we chalk those off, we're missing the mark. So I would add that in there under experts in your field if you're not a marginalized group, they're experts and you are not. So listening to those voices as well. Spend your energy wisely - would have really saved me a lot of grief and a lot of time. But it's one of those things that you kind of also have to learn as you go. That's my tip.
16. What do you hope people take away from your story and anything else you would like to share?
Well, fundamentally my message is that every human being is worthy of respect and feeling valued. It doesn't matter your size, age, ability level, health records or anything. None of that matters. Everybody is, it's very much worthy of feeling valued and respected. And as far as my work, I think most important thing is, to be honest with yourself. I think that I've worked really hard to always be transparent and honest and vulnerable with the people that follow me. And I do think that that resonates. I think authenticity will always resonate. So if you're ever questioning, if you're ever stuck and you're like, I don't know which way to go. Choose the authentic route and stay true to you and also give people the real shit. Cause that's what we need more of, especially in a hyper-social media, urban world. We need fewer highlight reels and more real talk.
Follow Jes:
Blog: http://www.themilitantbaker.com/
Buy her books: Things No One Will Tell Fat Girls | Landwhale
Guidance sessions: if people are interested in talking to Jes one-on-one, they can sign up for more info here: http://bit.ly/TMBlistnewletter
Disapproval Matrix: http://www.themilitantbaker.com/2017/02/the-disapproval-matrix-by-ann-friedman.html
370+ body image and mental health resources: http://www.themilitantbaker.com/p/resources.html
ALSO! I have a kick-ass monthly newsletter that I would love if you mentioned (the one thing I forgot!). They can sign up for it here: http://bit.ly/TMBlist
